Friday, April 24, 2009
Thursday, April 23, 2009
Lorena Herrera Leather Pants
The vote null, facebook conversations
Although the topic of debate at the national level, specifically in Guadalajara a group of citizens has launched a campaign to promote voters to nullify their vote with the express intention of the abduction of political life by parties and the fact that none were convincing.
Inside Facebook, well as local media have been interesting debates and positions on what might represent the annulment of the vote. Although this blogger
not convinced with the proposal, I present here part of the mosaic of opinions that have been taking place. In some of the views include the name facebook author's permission, sometimes not, as they either chose not to bring it or I could not contact them to ask permission at the end ligated to various texts in local and national print media on the subject. Get in your reader his own opinion:
Conversation on my wall (March 28):
Felipeno: Should we cancel our votes? Subject 1
: the "governance" pious? CLEAR!
LJ: What could I say to that poster ... the vote is free and secret, the question is do we begin to demand accountability from our politicians? Should we start to know the name of our local MP? Should we start using ITEI? Should we start writing our local representatives and senators? Should we start going to the public consultations?
A blank vote is nothing more than that, important votes are those with a party behind the numbers of invalid votes show that people have a discontent with the country's political class, however vote for a candidate is much more useful than not, if we commit to hold accountable for that in this way, the politician to commit to do their job, knowing that under the microscope.
Subject 2: Illuminate In Mexico we would launch a campaign to annul the vote ... If there is any interest let me know.
So far, in addition to cancel the vote, go to the polls wearing white ...
Subject 3: I see it as a viable option, if after reviewing the existing policies across platforms, is not one with which to identify the important thing is to go to the polls and the turnout does not become recurrent or each Once more, we must act!
Subject 4: The spoiled ballot is not only that, I think personally. I'd rather not fall into the false illusion of democracy where I am free by the mere fact that I get to "choose" between shit and vomited, a field which you can not "require" cuentas... y que bajo la lupa da más asco (ya tenemos suficientes muestras del descaro de los políticos ante la "lupa", se ríen de nosotros y se roban nuestra dignidad). Además de que me duelen los músculos si no hago nada más que "esperar" de ellos, y "votar", sin salir a las calles, sin decir el sentir, sin ORGANIZARME con la sociedad civil más allá de las estructuras cavernarias de nuestro país que juegan a política desde unos disque partidos, para llegar a ACCIONES representadas por nosotros mismos.
El voto es secreto, como la confesión... el juego de jugar que no estamos jugando se desvanece cuando lo hacemos público. Identidades individuales? también tenemos el ser colectivo, y your identity? Subject
5: CANCEL YOUR VOTE .... can be the first step in a series of measures to reform the current state of putrefaction of the electoral system we live and therefore a first step in the rethinking of the functioning of our system is "democratic government" (a human invention therefore perfectible simpre besides that very new) ... CANCEL your vote is an act that by itself or on its own says little, but if it reaches a "critical mass" and is chained to a series of actions "after voting" would be the first syllable of a message that would say something like "enough" or "Lower him the politiquillos of ... chocolate foam to your party and will acabarrrrrrr "........... ;-)
Subject 6: ... let me think.
Subject 7: I already I'm almost convinced. I'm not willing to give up voting, but I'm not willing to give up voting for the lesser of two evils. It could vote not to have to vote for those parties and those politicians.
Subject 8: that!. .. aside! ... or take the trouble to go to the box, ask for their ballots, bypass them, or puts the mother Mientele anyone convince you, take it to the ballot box and get into trouble the party system ... remember that not voting does not work and the contratio, favors a win to inch Feedback ... ABSTENTION IS NOT
Subject 8: Here is the explanation: http://www.milenio.com/node/178020
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: I agree with LJ in their questions, but I think there are steps leading up to build a truly effective citizen oversight. First we have to build as citizenship, indeed. I think by now we are not much less in Jalisco. We are a sleeping society, uncritically, without imagination. However there are some very interesting attempts to revive it. One of them might be it, who wants to have a real impact on our democracy "." In other countries, no vote was instrumented as a real tool to annul the elections when they do not convince anyone, when in fact no party and no candidate has nothing to offer. I think that's the current situation that needs addressing. Yet the main thing is that the debate is done and they all go into the chamba not to succumb to the inertia of human stupidity that dominates us. Greetings!
Subject 9: long power out of the "powers instituted" as such. If we want democracy we have to wait to give us the right to vote for the leaders of the bench. It's boring and stupid to participate in simulations. live in a plutocratic corporatist regime. No party has to change that. Cancel vote is the only option if you insist on waiting in line this Sunday. Things will change, not by the "democratic process."
10 Subject: If you are against the PAN, well, nullify their vote for the PAN to win again.
Subject 9: hummmm ... I do not care. with small differences in style have all been "un-ideological." or whether their positions reminiscent of Groucho Marx: "These are my principles, and if you do not like, I have others." It would be nice once put governance Sandoval eternal. and should not distract one Sunday every three years in trivialities.
Subject 9: ceased to represent parties platforms of thought and phenomena became marketing issues. All assume a Status Quo inviolable and out to the public opinion surveys to find under his arm to touch the raw nerve of the telenovela of the silent majority. In this process all become puppets of the puppet Televisa / TVAZTECA and shape their speeches to not disturb the summary of Sunday sports. If this is democracy, I prefer to exclude.
Karenina: This issue remains a cause for reflection. My current opinion is that the number of invalid votes that occur in these contests will not represent a direct change (as very few things are) but whether that percentage will a focus for other people to know what happened ... Percentages are many, but they are the same humans that surround you in your physical space and virtually no television, which they say: I cancel my vote because I do not think any of the candidates represent me ... one more will join. the point is how many succeed in being? How big is the force? I think that Mexico does not take much information to bring about change and time to think of something more than bread to survive.
changes out there ... emerging resistance, to inspire the everyday flow of the city ... Who else?
Felipeno: I can not give turns, although the proposal to cancel the vote comes from people you trust, it does make me sound of little use he could have. If
per se escasísisma citizen incidence is achieved is hampered by the closure of parties, by the arrogance of its members (empowered) and also we say the lack of participation and interest in tangling which if they participate, I believe him completely back to the system weakens us (as citizens) even more.
entangle these gentlemen should not just let them go for free.
Even if it might be a symbolic act nice ... but just that: a symbolic act.
Subject 4: So yeah, it depends on the number to be achieved ... but, finally, talking of votes and number of winners canditaos, Abort or not really affect voting trends? ... Subject
11: I have a question: to what extent to annul the vote before knowing the proposals and proposed strategies of different actors with an impact on upcoming elections, not to fall into the same old thing: one vote monitoring rather than conviction, analysis and reflection?
not that I'm against the annulment of the vote, but I think it needed more thought and knowledge of things before making any decision ....
12 Subject: Very interesting that collective, I agree that we should inform ourselves and exercise our political action. Voting for any of the options or nullify our vote means positioning and concrete action, not mere apathy.
If we want a better country we have to engage not only in elections, but in day to day needs and aspirations of society ... Subject
13: I think this process could be interesting if done en masse and it meant something (much like the lucid essay on Saramago), but I think it is presumptuous of us to propose when we have not even given the opportunity to hear the candidates' proposals, which by law can be published as of May 4. Let's give it time, but definitely let's say NO to abstain. Subject
14: not want to see what ended arches of the millennium? Do not want to see the golden gate style suspension bridge that takes us Lazaro Cardenas Chapalita forest gardens? Do not want to see more towers in Coloma? Do not want these three new lines of choribus challenging our streets? What about the Pan American Village? do not be foolish, the bread is cool, if not who we lie the mother? what more could we ask! we are not enemies of progress
Subject 15: Because we do not nullify the politicians who do not play well what??
because instead of eating and you'll change it to comply or are you going??
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: If it is important to know the proposals of all candidates and discuss ... but you have to go further and recognize that not enough "good proposals." The structure in which the candidates themselves are involved, the sterile leaves time to act. All have interests to reconcile, are concerned to maintain their hold on power rather than its political consistency. At the end are cogs impossible bureaucracy. We can always think the next will be better or they finally do certain things. I rather think that nothing will be done until we have the real power to remove from office officials who do not fulfill their duties. It is essential that we acquire such a capability and know how to be proactive citizenship and moved. Simply consumption, television, work and campaigning to die stupid .... Subject
15: would be wonderful to have the desired impact ... but the reality is that due to the reform of our electoral law was not appropriate VOID VOTES.
Here's an example: if a million votes, 999.994 of spoiled votes, the result is 1 for the PT, 1 for the PRD, 1 for the PSD, 1 for the PRI and 2 for Pan, WINS PAN. Bread would
most because OUR ELECTORAL LAW NOT ALLOW THE MAJORITY OF VOTES CANCELLATION.
Conversation on the wall of subject 16 (March 31):
Subject 16 (addressed specifically to me): Felipeno, I believe that voting for a party is legitimate, I think it is important to think far our electoral democracy has come, if we could a large amount of invalid votes will be a sample intended for rulers that people do not agree, I am convinced that not going to make a difference in our state ... but stay silent
Karenina: Hello subject 16! I think your opinion would be interesting in a space that was assembled on the spoiled ballot ... Sumarto would not you like to generate more dialogue between everyone? ... on the number of invalid votes, I think that your total will be noted but will not change much ... What else do we do?
Felipeno: I think it is not a matter of legitimacy, it is difficult to form a government with legitimacy achieved at any stage. The only thing to which they aspired to power, the constant exercise of that arrogance of power emanates.
The proposed null vote may be a sign of discontent, but ... Do you really think that our political class cares whether or not we agree?
The null vote does not change anything, just shows our weaknesses, it is a lose-lose to the one who benefits is the party in power is that what we want? Should
citizen groups, confront, say, get us to the cuisine, exercise our rights and put the real causes of concern to citizens in the electoral debate ... must say that subject 16 that you yourself have been an example to follow.
Why then give back to the process and "keep quiet" canceling unnecessary vote?
Conversation on my wall (April 20):
Felipeno: In Jalisco, abstain, annul the vote and vote for the PAN, are the same thing.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: and vote for any other well.
Omar Castañeda: And the rest, including "the same" and "the same shit." Or by what vote. So ...
Felipeno: more convenient, these bastards lied to the mother, donate our money to the Cardinal, criminalize women who want to decide your life and an endless etcetera ...
citizen groups what we do a campaign that all he does is distract the protest vote?
do those who do not agree we should cancel? Neither mothers
!
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: 1. groups are not citizens but everyone, 2. those who disagree must not nullify their convictions to vote rationally weighed 3. certainly does not change the policy or slows the shit that make us politicians, neither made any revolution, nor did the PRI-PAN alternation in power and neither will Lopez Obrador nor as any other you want up as the new "honorable citizen, ethically committed to the people", and 4. tolerate a political system that forces us to express our life in a tug of war does not seem the better choice. 5. Those who shut out the vote we are thinking of a different order and other logic to live socially.
Felipeno: 1. If in this city and 4 part 5 monkeys tear a campaign to cancel the vote if they are organized citizen groups.
2. Of course.
3. Tons like? I do not believe in anything or anyone, nor is there any solution, but I cancel my vote. "?
4. Did you mean "economic system"
5. An order "different" and a "logic" (I hope you know that I consider my partner at that) should be built and not born from the existing boycott.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: 1. If a city part 5 and 4 monkeys tear a campaign that does so much "evil" is because of the 4 million who do not think sleeping monkeys. (Which I do not think so)
2. Felipeno believe in you and nothing else.
3. The economic and political system are not completely unrelated, imply each other, as well as religious and ideological system of our culture.
4. What is built many times must destroy in order to grow, if not ask your mother and how much it cost to give birth.
5. Construction can not do it with today's politicians or those who are being promoted from other parties construction must be individually and collectively.
6. The boycott is an important tool as long as we all know to use it and use it. The problem is that nobody wants to join together, we are divided, so keep your citizens and rule.
7. Whence comes this power to our politicians? The power of our tax money, the ridiculous information that the media creates, our actions and daily practices.
8. Cancel the vote will not change things as certainly not the votes of punishment, the power is still there for them. But we can enhance public discussion, reflection lucid dissent, creativity to think of other forms of government, other forms of participation and economic and social protection.
Felipeno: then the proposal "after" away your vote "is rather" destroy everything set?
If so, then count me out .... but so say it!!
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: I think that basically this is my dear felipebus, but there if I can just speak for myself, my cancel the vote is no longer the policy and the economy and life. Resigned to live here (BUT UNFORTUNATELY I AM STILL BEING SUBJECT TO MEXICAN LAW AND SOCIAL OBLIGATIONS AND AN AGREEMENT THAT NEVER SIGNED (Except when I agreed to have my IFE and when my parents registered me at birth) AND FIND OUT WHICH THE FALLACY OF LIVING IN VIL harmonious society.) I cancel my vote, vote for democracy, vote for anarchy critical citizens, ready, with imagination, wanting to make something completely different country ....
Karla Preciado Robles: For in proposal is well nice, but the reality is that things are not going to spend a fun event-social-community where people go to cast blank ballots, in the style of Saramago, and going to stay with the asshole Jorge Salinas as our brand new mayor. The problem is that it looks to citizenship and politics as two different scenarios and we forget that if the policy was to where it was is because of us. Historical obligation (not wanted or did, but inherited) causes the current CITIZEN role is to reform politics, not ignore it. The mule was not unfriendly ...
Felipeno: to see .... not to stir apples and oranges. The reasons are one thing and another electoral system.
There certainly causes no vote will be solved via any means (the criminalization of abortion in Jalisco, he interference of the church, the pollution in the jump, etc.)
But some reasons if they depart from the electoral via: the consolidation of track cyclists in GDL, recovery public spaces, for example.
electoral system and the management of public policies we should be concerned citizens and groups should sit (in the local case) with each goat to be alderman or mayor to place on their agendas appropriate topics. If we let them (politicians) are screwed.
Karla Preciado Robles: course, we do not solve 100 years of cagazón in an election ...
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: amen, I agree. And of course things will not be solved with mere elections. Be resolved when there is a real public policy and not indoctrinated mass crap by Televisa and TV Azteca or commercials as bastions of democracy in the IFE (never report the alternative to cancel the vote.) Nobody has the answer and I think there is, is that IRLA doing. For some override vote is a simple message, not the solution nor the saving proposal and the monkey of the thread. It's a simple message. The rest is still standing, continue to mobilize citizens, arming boycotts if necessary, discrediting those who do not do well the work and they support the adjournment of the sleeves, but they can speak with citizens and do not operate in the same form opponents! (And we do not empower a party that has characters certainly valuable but that is rotten to everyone else who will complement).
Karla Preciado Robles: De acuerdísimo you.
just think that to be a message, we will be very expensive.
The second thing you can do without having to cancel the vote and even more right, because the government will require work by which we vote (even if you've chosen.)
As neither party is one that is, as you say, the monkey of the thread. But I think it is important for the characters bow valuable in an election where the parties (especially the PRI, PAN and PRD) increasingly blur political boundaries, we no longer know what is left, right, center ... We are taking steps, who knows, maybe in this election we get a surprise.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: do not think it comes up as expensive "because he is finally convinced by a candidate (or party in the worst case) will vote for this. Who is left to be manipulated by simple arguments, it is democracy for the poor of our country (without debate, without information shown). And those who doubt, reflect and determine themselves, vote for it.
I will continue to opt for the annulment of the vote until I find political means to a real project. This implies, for me, the social management of the public, participation public regarding laws, reforms, conduct of community service and effective power to clean up the problems we face. If there are no "parties" to promote this approach honestly do not see the black hole solution that we've gotten.
parties do not serve today are a dictatorship, a simulated Franco.
media Jalisco Letters: Vote
Diego Null by Petersen in Public.
the best choice Abstention by Ruben Martin in Public.
Vote, no vote that is the question by Alberto Perez in Public.
Abstention trap arithmetic by Ricardo Salazar in Public.
Abort the vote? by Jaime Hernandez in La Jornada de Jalisco.
Blog
Un vote. Friends
referenced as a subject X: if you want to include your real name please contact me on facebook!
Inside Facebook, well as local media have been interesting debates and positions on what might represent the annulment of the vote. Although this blogger
not convinced with the proposal, I present here part of the mosaic of opinions that have been taking place. In some of the views include the name facebook author's permission, sometimes not, as they either chose not to bring it or I could not contact them to ask permission at the end ligated to various texts in local and national print media on the subject. Get in your reader his own opinion:
Conversation on my wall (March 28):
Felipeno: Should we cancel our votes? Subject 1
: the "governance" pious? CLEAR!
LJ: What could I say to that poster ... the vote is free and secret, the question is do we begin to demand accountability from our politicians? Should we start to know the name of our local MP? Should we start using ITEI? Should we start writing our local representatives and senators? Should we start going to the public consultations?
A blank vote is nothing more than that, important votes are those with a party behind the numbers of invalid votes show that people have a discontent with the country's political class, however vote for a candidate is much more useful than not, if we commit to hold accountable for that in this way, the politician to commit to do their job, knowing that under the microscope.
Subject 2: Illuminate In Mexico we would launch a campaign to annul the vote ... If there is any interest let me know.
So far, in addition to cancel the vote, go to the polls wearing white ...
Subject 3: I see it as a viable option, if after reviewing the existing policies across platforms, is not one with which to identify the important thing is to go to the polls and the turnout does not become recurrent or each Once more, we must act!
Subject 4: The spoiled ballot is not only that, I think personally. I'd rather not fall into the false illusion of democracy where I am free by the mere fact that I get to "choose" between shit and vomited, a field which you can not "require" cuentas... y que bajo la lupa da más asco (ya tenemos suficientes muestras del descaro de los políticos ante la "lupa", se ríen de nosotros y se roban nuestra dignidad). Además de que me duelen los músculos si no hago nada más que "esperar" de ellos, y "votar", sin salir a las calles, sin decir el sentir, sin ORGANIZARME con la sociedad civil más allá de las estructuras cavernarias de nuestro país que juegan a política desde unos disque partidos, para llegar a ACCIONES representadas por nosotros mismos.
El voto es secreto, como la confesión... el juego de jugar que no estamos jugando se desvanece cuando lo hacemos público. Identidades individuales? también tenemos el ser colectivo, y your identity? Subject
5: CANCEL YOUR VOTE .... can be the first step in a series of measures to reform the current state of putrefaction of the electoral system we live and therefore a first step in the rethinking of the functioning of our system is "democratic government" (a human invention therefore perfectible simpre besides that very new) ... CANCEL your vote is an act that by itself or on its own says little, but if it reaches a "critical mass" and is chained to a series of actions "after voting" would be the first syllable of a message that would say something like "enough" or "Lower him the politiquillos of ... chocolate foam to your party and will acabarrrrrrr "........... ;-)
Subject 6: ... let me think.
Subject 7: I already I'm almost convinced. I'm not willing to give up voting, but I'm not willing to give up voting for the lesser of two evils. It could vote not to have to vote for those parties and those politicians.
Subject 8: that!. .. aside! ... or take the trouble to go to the box, ask for their ballots, bypass them, or puts the mother Mientele anyone convince you, take it to the ballot box and get into trouble the party system ... remember that not voting does not work and the contratio, favors a win to inch Feedback ... ABSTENTION IS NOT
Subject 8: Here is the explanation: http://www.milenio.com/node/178020
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: I agree with LJ in their questions, but I think there are steps leading up to build a truly effective citizen oversight. First we have to build as citizenship, indeed. I think by now we are not much less in Jalisco. We are a sleeping society, uncritically, without imagination. However there are some very interesting attempts to revive it. One of them might be it, who wants to have a real impact on our democracy "." In other countries, no vote was instrumented as a real tool to annul the elections when they do not convince anyone, when in fact no party and no candidate has nothing to offer. I think that's the current situation that needs addressing. Yet the main thing is that the debate is done and they all go into the chamba not to succumb to the inertia of human stupidity that dominates us. Greetings!
Subject 9: long power out of the "powers instituted" as such. If we want democracy we have to wait to give us the right to vote for the leaders of the bench. It's boring and stupid to participate in simulations. live in a plutocratic corporatist regime. No party has to change that. Cancel vote is the only option if you insist on waiting in line this Sunday. Things will change, not by the "democratic process."
10 Subject: If you are against the PAN, well, nullify their vote for the PAN to win again.
Subject 9: hummmm ... I do not care. with small differences in style have all been "un-ideological." or whether their positions reminiscent of Groucho Marx: "These are my principles, and if you do not like, I have others." It would be nice once put governance Sandoval eternal. and should not distract one Sunday every three years in trivialities.
Subject 9: ceased to represent parties platforms of thought and phenomena became marketing issues. All assume a Status Quo inviolable and out to the public opinion surveys to find under his arm to touch the raw nerve of the telenovela of the silent majority. In this process all become puppets of the puppet Televisa / TVAZTECA and shape their speeches to not disturb the summary of Sunday sports. If this is democracy, I prefer to exclude.
Karenina: This issue remains a cause for reflection. My current opinion is that the number of invalid votes that occur in these contests will not represent a direct change (as very few things are) but whether that percentage will a focus for other people to know what happened ... Percentages are many, but they are the same humans that surround you in your physical space and virtually no television, which they say: I cancel my vote because I do not think any of the candidates represent me ... one more will join. the point is how many succeed in being? How big is the force? I think that Mexico does not take much information to bring about change and time to think of something more than bread to survive.
changes out there ... emerging resistance, to inspire the everyday flow of the city ... Who else?
Felipeno: I can not give turns, although the proposal to cancel the vote comes from people you trust, it does make me sound of little use he could have. If
per se escasísisma citizen incidence is achieved is hampered by the closure of parties, by the arrogance of its members (empowered) and also we say the lack of participation and interest in tangling which if they participate, I believe him completely back to the system weakens us (as citizens) even more.
entangle these gentlemen should not just let them go for free.
Even if it might be a symbolic act nice ... but just that: a symbolic act.
Subject 4: So yeah, it depends on the number to be achieved ... but, finally, talking of votes and number of winners canditaos, Abort or not really affect voting trends? ... Subject
11: I have a question: to what extent to annul the vote before knowing the proposals and proposed strategies of different actors with an impact on upcoming elections, not to fall into the same old thing: one vote monitoring rather than conviction, analysis and reflection?
not that I'm against the annulment of the vote, but I think it needed more thought and knowledge of things before making any decision ....
12 Subject: Very interesting that collective, I agree that we should inform ourselves and exercise our political action. Voting for any of the options or nullify our vote means positioning and concrete action, not mere apathy.
If we want a better country we have to engage not only in elections, but in day to day needs and aspirations of society ... Subject
13: I think this process could be interesting if done en masse and it meant something (much like the lucid essay on Saramago), but I think it is presumptuous of us to propose when we have not even given the opportunity to hear the candidates' proposals, which by law can be published as of May 4. Let's give it time, but definitely let's say NO to abstain. Subject
14: not want to see what ended arches of the millennium? Do not want to see the golden gate style suspension bridge that takes us Lazaro Cardenas Chapalita forest gardens? Do not want to see more towers in Coloma? Do not want these three new lines of choribus challenging our streets? What about the Pan American Village? do not be foolish, the bread is cool, if not who we lie the mother? what more could we ask! we are not enemies of progress
Subject 15: Because we do not nullify the politicians who do not play well what??
because instead of eating and you'll change it to comply or are you going??
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: If it is important to know the proposals of all candidates and discuss ... but you have to go further and recognize that not enough "good proposals." The structure in which the candidates themselves are involved, the sterile leaves time to act. All have interests to reconcile, are concerned to maintain their hold on power rather than its political consistency. At the end are cogs impossible bureaucracy. We can always think the next will be better or they finally do certain things. I rather think that nothing will be done until we have the real power to remove from office officials who do not fulfill their duties. It is essential that we acquire such a capability and know how to be proactive citizenship and moved. Simply consumption, television, work and campaigning to die stupid .... Subject
15: would be wonderful to have the desired impact ... but the reality is that due to the reform of our electoral law was not appropriate VOID VOTES.
Here's an example: if a million votes, 999.994 of spoiled votes, the result is 1 for the PT, 1 for the PRD, 1 for the PSD, 1 for the PRI and 2 for Pan, WINS PAN. Bread would
most because OUR ELECTORAL LAW NOT ALLOW THE MAJORITY OF VOTES CANCELLATION.
Conversation on the wall of subject 16 (March 31):
Subject 16 (addressed specifically to me): Felipeno, I believe that voting for a party is legitimate, I think it is important to think far our electoral democracy has come, if we could a large amount of invalid votes will be a sample intended for rulers that people do not agree, I am convinced that not going to make a difference in our state ... but stay silent
Karenina: Hello subject 16! I think your opinion would be interesting in a space that was assembled on the spoiled ballot ... Sumarto would not you like to generate more dialogue between everyone? ... on the number of invalid votes, I think that your total will be noted but will not change much ... What else do we do?
Felipeno: I think it is not a matter of legitimacy, it is difficult to form a government with legitimacy achieved at any stage. The only thing to which they aspired to power, the constant exercise of that arrogance of power emanates.
The proposed null vote may be a sign of discontent, but ... Do you really think that our political class cares whether or not we agree?
The null vote does not change anything, just shows our weaknesses, it is a lose-lose to the one who benefits is the party in power is that what we want? Should
citizen groups, confront, say, get us to the cuisine, exercise our rights and put the real causes of concern to citizens in the electoral debate ... must say that subject 16 that you yourself have been an example to follow.
Why then give back to the process and "keep quiet" canceling unnecessary vote?
Conversation on my wall (April 20):
Felipeno: In Jalisco, abstain, annul the vote and vote for the PAN, are the same thing.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: and vote for any other well.
Omar Castañeda: And the rest, including "the same" and "the same shit." Or by what vote. So ...
Felipeno: more convenient, these bastards lied to the mother, donate our money to the Cardinal, criminalize women who want to decide your life and an endless etcetera ...
citizen groups what we do a campaign that all he does is distract the protest vote?
do those who do not agree we should cancel? Neither mothers
!
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: 1. groups are not citizens but everyone, 2. those who disagree must not nullify their convictions to vote rationally weighed 3. certainly does not change the policy or slows the shit that make us politicians, neither made any revolution, nor did the PRI-PAN alternation in power and neither will Lopez Obrador nor as any other you want up as the new "honorable citizen, ethically committed to the people", and 4. tolerate a political system that forces us to express our life in a tug of war does not seem the better choice. 5. Those who shut out the vote we are thinking of a different order and other logic to live socially.
Felipeno: 1. If in this city and 4 part 5 monkeys tear a campaign to cancel the vote if they are organized citizen groups.
2. Of course.
3. Tons like? I do not believe in anything or anyone, nor is there any solution, but I cancel my vote. "?
4. Did you mean "economic system"
5. An order "different" and a "logic" (I hope you know that I consider my partner at that) should be built and not born from the existing boycott.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: 1. If a city part 5 and 4 monkeys tear a campaign that does so much "evil" is because of the 4 million who do not think sleeping monkeys. (Which I do not think so)
2. Felipeno believe in you and nothing else.
3. The economic and political system are not completely unrelated, imply each other, as well as religious and ideological system of our culture.
4. What is built many times must destroy in order to grow, if not ask your mother and how much it cost to give birth.
5. Construction can not do it with today's politicians or those who are being promoted from other parties construction must be individually and collectively.
6. The boycott is an important tool as long as we all know to use it and use it. The problem is that nobody wants to join together, we are divided, so keep your citizens and rule.
7. Whence comes this power to our politicians? The power of our tax money, the ridiculous information that the media creates, our actions and daily practices.
8. Cancel the vote will not change things as certainly not the votes of punishment, the power is still there for them. But we can enhance public discussion, reflection lucid dissent, creativity to think of other forms of government, other forms of participation and economic and social protection.
Felipeno: then the proposal "after" away your vote "is rather" destroy everything set?
If so, then count me out .... but so say it!!
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: I think that basically this is my dear felipebus, but there if I can just speak for myself, my cancel the vote is no longer the policy and the economy and life. Resigned to live here (BUT UNFORTUNATELY I AM STILL BEING SUBJECT TO MEXICAN LAW AND SOCIAL OBLIGATIONS AND AN AGREEMENT THAT NEVER SIGNED (Except when I agreed to have my IFE and when my parents registered me at birth) AND FIND OUT WHICH THE FALLACY OF LIVING IN VIL harmonious society.) I cancel my vote, vote for democracy, vote for anarchy critical citizens, ready, with imagination, wanting to make something completely different country ....
Karla Preciado Robles: For in proposal is well nice, but the reality is that things are not going to spend a fun event-social-community where people go to cast blank ballots, in the style of Saramago, and going to stay with the asshole Jorge Salinas as our brand new mayor. The problem is that it looks to citizenship and politics as two different scenarios and we forget that if the policy was to where it was is because of us. Historical obligation (not wanted or did, but inherited) causes the current CITIZEN role is to reform politics, not ignore it. The mule was not unfriendly ...
Felipeno: to see .... not to stir apples and oranges. The reasons are one thing and another electoral system.
There certainly causes no vote will be solved via any means (the criminalization of abortion in Jalisco, he interference of the church, the pollution in the jump, etc.)
But some reasons if they depart from the electoral via: the consolidation of track cyclists in GDL, recovery public spaces, for example.
electoral system and the management of public policies we should be concerned citizens and groups should sit (in the local case) with each goat to be alderman or mayor to place on their agendas appropriate topics. If we let them (politicians) are screwed.
Karla Preciado Robles: course, we do not solve 100 years of cagazón in an election ...
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: amen, I agree. And of course things will not be solved with mere elections. Be resolved when there is a real public policy and not indoctrinated mass crap by Televisa and TV Azteca or commercials as bastions of democracy in the IFE (never report the alternative to cancel the vote.) Nobody has the answer and I think there is, is that IRLA doing. For some override vote is a simple message, not the solution nor the saving proposal and the monkey of the thread. It's a simple message. The rest is still standing, continue to mobilize citizens, arming boycotts if necessary, discrediting those who do not do well the work and they support the adjournment of the sleeves, but they can speak with citizens and do not operate in the same form opponents! (And we do not empower a party that has characters certainly valuable but that is rotten to everyone else who will complement).
Karla Preciado Robles: De acuerdísimo you.
just think that to be a message, we will be very expensive.
The second thing you can do without having to cancel the vote and even more right, because the government will require work by which we vote (even if you've chosen.)
As neither party is one that is, as you say, the monkey of the thread. But I think it is important for the characters bow valuable in an election where the parties (especially the PRI, PAN and PRD) increasingly blur political boundaries, we no longer know what is left, right, center ... We are taking steps, who knows, maybe in this election we get a surprise.
Jesus Carlos "Black" Soto: do not think it comes up as expensive "because he is finally convinced by a candidate (or party in the worst case) will vote for this. Who is left to be manipulated by simple arguments, it is democracy for the poor of our country (without debate, without information shown). And those who doubt, reflect and determine themselves, vote for it.
I will continue to opt for the annulment of the vote until I find political means to a real project. This implies, for me, the social management of the public, participation public regarding laws, reforms, conduct of community service and effective power to clean up the problems we face. If there are no "parties" to promote this approach honestly do not see the black hole solution that we've gotten.
parties do not serve today are a dictatorship, a simulated Franco.
media Jalisco Letters: Vote
Diego Null by Petersen in Public.
the best choice Abstention by Ruben Martin in Public.
Vote, no vote that is the question by Alberto Perez in Public.
Abstention trap arithmetic by Ricardo Salazar in Public.
Abort the vote? by Jaime Hernandez in La Jornada de Jalisco.
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